How loud is too loud?
A group of musicians carry amplifiers into The Space.
Photo by Danielle Peterson | Statesman Journal
As soon as I started covering music in Salem, nearly everyone involved in the music scene started nagging me about when I'd write about what they saw as an antiquated, nightlife-unfriendly noise ordinance. I put it on the backburner, until a direct conflict between a developer and local musician spilled over from Broadway Street and ended up in Salem City Hall.
This story also gave me my most intrepid reporter moment ever: I had to talk to building residents, but none would call me, and the landlord wouldn't give me their numbers. So I stood outside the building, in the rain, dialing them one by one on the callbox and begging them to come down and talk to me.
Also, for the record: Doug lost, and The Space closed. I still miss it.
(Originally published May 5, 2010)
This story also gave me my most intrepid reporter moment ever: I had to talk to building residents, but none would call me, and the landlord wouldn't give me their numbers. So I stood outside the building, in the rain, dialing them one by one on the callbox and begging them to come down and talk to me.
Also, for the record: Doug lost, and The Space closed. I still miss it.
(Originally published May 5, 2010)
Brady Rogers held up a decibel meter, and everyone shut their mouths. For a few seconds, breathing, florescent lights humming and a computer monitor were the only sounds in a small meeting room at the Salem's Urban Development Office.
"The ambient noise is 55 decibels in this room, just from people breathing," Rogers announced, and the 20-odd people present giggled.
At that moment, they were just about three times as loud as Salem's noise ordinance permits for a residence at nighttime — the limit is 50 decibels.
Salem's noise ordinance has come to the forefront because of conflict between The Space, a rock venue in the 1100 block of Broadway NE and the apartments across the street. People who lived in the apartments have moved out because of the noise, and the venue is under city orders to shut off amplified music at 10 p.m. Today, venue owner Doug Hoffman will appeal the cease-and-desist order.
Since the order, a grassroots movement has sprung up in support of the venue, including a Facebook group and people lobbying the city to change the ordinance.
Now, the city is examining the noise ordinance to decide what is too loud in areas that combine businesses with living in mixed-use areas downtown. Salem's noise ordinance dates back to 1982, and has no specific provisions for such mixed-use areas that have sprung up around downtown.
Mixed-use is just what it sounds like: in one building, you can have homes, offices and businesses. It's come into vogue in Salem in the past few years, in part because it promotes a dense, environmentally friendly, walkable downtown. But there have been unforeseen problems.
At the April 22 meeting of the Downtown Advisory Board, venue owners and musicians were scattered between advisory board members and planners. They were there for Information Item C on the agenda: Downtown Noise Limits.
Committee members asked about the conflict between the businesses and homes, and a lawyer for The Space asked which standard for noise should be held — the stricter one for homes or the looser business restrictions?
"That will be addressed in the next code," Rogers said, adding that right now, the city generally uses the stricter residential regulations. "Mixed use was probably not envisioned when this noise code was written."
"We wanted mixed-use and we were all really excited about it," Councilor Laura Tesler said in a phone interview. "You know, I guess I thought most people who would live downtown or on Broadway would be OK with noise ... But I guess people do have the right to be able to open their window on a hot night after 10 and not having sound pounding in their window."
"We never thought about it, never even discussed it. And I have to admit, that was a faux pas on our part."
The city of Salem's noise ordinance is pretty straightforward; it can be printed on just one page. It takes into account three factors: times (everyone must be quieter between 10 p.m. and 7 a.m.), who is making the noise (industrial areas can be louder than residences) and who can hear the noise.
The strictest category, both for making and allowable noise, is "noise-sensitive." It includes houses, hospitals, nursing homes, apartments and, roughly speaking, places where people would like to sleep at night, and therefore are most deserving of strict quiet standards.
The allowed noise level ranges from 45 decibels (from one house to another at night) up to unlimited noise that can be made between two industrial areas. Right now, it has no provisions for mixed-use.
Mayor Janet Taylor said that she thinks the solution is for businesses and residents to both be respectful of one another, and that as of now ordinance changes aren't needed.
"I support the ordinances as they are unless we find a reason to change them," she said.
Broadway overlay
On a recent Thursday evening, the intersection of Broadway and Market streets was busy. Patrons of the Salem Cinema headed in for a movie, people ducked in and out of Subway and Christo's Pizza, and residents of Broadway Town Square, situated above businesses, arrived home from work. Across the street, a band loudly warmed up in The Space.
The Space, Christo's Pizza, Salem Cinema, the two apartment buildings and the YWCA are all a part of the Broadway/High Street Overlay Zone. In 1997, the city adopted a plan to redevelop the area — lots of stores, residences on upper stories and a walkable neighborhood was the plan.
Directly across the street from The Space is Broadway Town Square. The apartments are modern, with strong architectural lines and careful design — for example, they were built with bike-sized closets inside so residents wouldn't store them on the balconies. Rents are between $950 and $1,150 per month; all the units are filled, said developer David Glennie, a former Salem City councilor who runs Telos Development.
One block north is Broadway Place, which houses the YWCA and 55 units of low-income housing, 52 of which are filled.
Altogether, Glennie estimates that he and his investors in Telos Development paid more than $23 million to develop the properties. Telos bought the Broadway Place property in 2005; the Broadway Town Square property in 2006.
Noise & complaints
Some Broadway Town Square residents — the ones with apartments that face away from The Space — said the noise has never bothered them.
But the ones with apartments facing the venue have a different story.
Randall Blake is a former resident of Broadway Town Square. He and his wife JoAnne loved the building, loved the neighborhood, loved the landlord, he said, but couldn't stand the noise.
"The very first day we moved in, that night the noise was so bad we retreated to our bedroom on the back side of the building, and we couldn't sleep, the noise was so bad," he said.
Did he know there was a rock venue across the street when he moved in?
"We knew that there was, yes," he said.
"But we had no idea it was going to be that loud and that disruptive to our life," he said, adding that the noise made it impossible to hold conversations, listen to music or watch a movie.
Shortly after they moved in, they invited their daughter over to show off their new place.
"And we're sitting there in our living room and it was so loud, we were screaming at each other," he said. "And my daughter said, 'I can't take this anymore.' And she left, and she said, 'I don't know how you guys are going to be able to stand it.'"
Blake and his wife moved out this month to Keizer.
Shortly after residents moved in, the calls started pouring into the city. April 22, 2009. May 2. May 15. May 30. June 30. July 12. July 14. July 24, and so on. Nearly all of them were the same: residents of Broadway Town Squares and some from Broadway Center could hear the music, and they wanted it turned down or shut off.
Complaints came from different people, though there were some names that showed up repeatedly.
It hit its peak during the hot spell of last summer, when The Space, lacking air conditioning, played music with the doors open. That, residents say, was when it was worst, and while things are better in the winter, they're worried about the coming summer.
Brady Rogers is in charge of enforcement of city code compliance, and, by extension, sound complaints. He first went out to take noise measurements at The Space in August of last year. He said the people at The Space nearly always quieted down after the police showed up, and no official citations were issued.
Then in March, Doug Hoffman, the owner of The Space was given a cease-and-desist order from the city. The verdict: he could not play amplified music after 10 p.m.
The Space, which opened in February 2008, is a petite venue, with thrift store couches and a mural of The Gold Man were he a skeleton. They sell Rainier and PBR for $2. There's comedy nights, and acoustic shows, but mostly what it's known for is rock — hard rock, loud rock, prog rock and psychedelic rock. They get big names — there was the time Frank Black of The Pixies debuted his new band there, and there was the secret concert from Art Brut, one of England's bigger bands, but mostly they feature local bands.
Hoffman, for his part, said he does not want to be a bad neighbor and has tried to accommodate — moving the stage to the back of the venue, for example, and adding sound proofing where he could. But, he said, he is barely able to keep the doors open as it is and can't afford more expensive soundproofing.
"I'm having trouble even making rent, let alone the materials and the hoops to jump through," he said.
He is hoping to move to the downtown area in the next year, perhaps into a basement.
"I want it to be all, like, legit," he said. "Where no one can mess with me."
But, he said, that won't solve the overarching problem.
"Even if I'm not in this facility, if there's something like this that opens in another part of town, it's the same issue."
Mixed-use question
Glennie, the developer, said he has no issue with a music venue, but he wants the rules followed and not changed.
"Doug knowingly and continually operated outside of the existing ordinance," he said, adding that the nighttime noise from The Space is harming his and others' investments in a livable Broadway.
"I don't know why anyone would think it's the problem of our tenants ... and not the problem of those who are are violating the noise ordinance."
And, he said, his company made the plans and purchased the lot long before The Space was there. He hopes the city will maintain the current standards.
"I would have a very difficult time leasing all these units," if it were changed, he said. "And the city, I assume, would hold some responsibility for that."
Jason Seibert, Hoffman's lawyer, said the city needs to look at this conflict and address the larger issues that come with a downtown that is both home to people and home to bars and clubs, many of which make their livelihoods after 10 p.m.
"It's forcing the entertainment part of downtown to shut down at 10 o'clock," he said. "And that's just not healthy for an effective downtown core."
"To hold a commercial district to be quieter than a room that's silent," Seibert said referring to the decibel meter test at the Urban Development Office, "is not practical."
And, he said, the problem could be lessened if the city mandated sound-proofing construction in residences on busy streets near businesses.
Tonight, Seibert will represent Hoffman as he appeals the cease and desist order at a 4 p.m. hearing in the City Council chambers. His argument: the sound ordinance is vague and does not address mixed use. How can Hoffman comply with the ordinance, Seibert will argue, if there is nothing written to address his situation?
Rogers, for his part, said his department uses their best judgement on cases, and there shouldn't be much question.
"The noise ordinance is not vague; the noise ordinance is not based on zoning," Rogers said. "It's based on the occupancy of the receiving property."
Whether the city will change the ordinance remains up in the air. Right now, the city's attorney is examining the existing code, though Rogers said it is unlikely it will be taken up anytime before the budget passes later this month.
Councilor Tesler said she hopes to soon introduce an ordinance to create an entertainment zone, where clubs and bars could play later and louder.
"The permanent solution is an entertainment zone ordinance, and everyone knows what the deal is — if they move into this area, they know that live music is allowed from X until Y."
Tesler added that she's frustrated that she has to drive to Eugene or Portland to see bands that have skipped over Salem, and frustrated that local bands lack venues and support.
"It drives me nuts, because I feel like, 'Why am I driving to Eugene, which is the same size as Salem, to see a show?'"
But Taylor said she doesn't see the issue as one of zoning, but rather of a business owner acting irresponsibly.
"I've lived in Salem since 1956 and experienced a tremendous amount of live music over my many, many years, so I think we have entertainment zones where a business feels that they can be successful and follow the current noise ordinance," she said.
And, she said, she was concerned with whether anyone would want to live downtown if there was an entertainment zone.
"You've got about eight blocks where we're trying to encourage the mixed-use ... if you had loud music until 1, 2 in the morning, you would get nobody. You might get some people who want to be there with the loud music, but you're not going to get a good mix of residents."
City Councilor Diana Dickey said she hopes the city can find a compromise between residential and commercial properties in terms of mixed use.
"I definitely think we need to protect residents, but if we're going to allow mixed use we have to figure it out," she said. "If we allow mixed use or residential development in a place where there are established venues that play music ... I'm concerned with what would happen to them in that case.
"You have an area where they're zoned for commercial noise use and then suddenly they become a noise-sensitive area. What impact does that have on their business?"
[email protected] or (503) 399-6743
Noise ordinance
Salem's noise ordinance is based on three things: what time it is, who's making the noise and who can hear the noise. Night hours, which are of course quieter, run from 10 p.m. to 7 a.m.
The acceptable sound levels run from 45 decibels between two "noise sensitive" properties at night, up to unlimited noise between two industrial properties.
The ordinance is complaint-driven. If someone calls the city, the city will send someone out to the property line of the afflicted party to take noise measurements. They'll first take a baseline measurement, to find out how loud the property is normally, and then they can calculate how much noise the other property is adding. At first, the police give warnings, but progressive violations can lead to $301 fines or misdemeanor charges.
Decibels: The difference between 50 and 65 decibels may not sound like a lot, but it's enormous.
Decibels grow exponentially, and you double in sound every three decibels. So that 15 decibel difference means the sound is actually 32 times louder.
"The ambient noise is 55 decibels in this room, just from people breathing," Rogers announced, and the 20-odd people present giggled.
At that moment, they were just about three times as loud as Salem's noise ordinance permits for a residence at nighttime — the limit is 50 decibels.
Salem's noise ordinance has come to the forefront because of conflict between The Space, a rock venue in the 1100 block of Broadway NE and the apartments across the street. People who lived in the apartments have moved out because of the noise, and the venue is under city orders to shut off amplified music at 10 p.m. Today, venue owner Doug Hoffman will appeal the cease-and-desist order.
Since the order, a grassroots movement has sprung up in support of the venue, including a Facebook group and people lobbying the city to change the ordinance.
Now, the city is examining the noise ordinance to decide what is too loud in areas that combine businesses with living in mixed-use areas downtown. Salem's noise ordinance dates back to 1982, and has no specific provisions for such mixed-use areas that have sprung up around downtown.
Mixed-use is just what it sounds like: in one building, you can have homes, offices and businesses. It's come into vogue in Salem in the past few years, in part because it promotes a dense, environmentally friendly, walkable downtown. But there have been unforeseen problems.
At the April 22 meeting of the Downtown Advisory Board, venue owners and musicians were scattered between advisory board members and planners. They were there for Information Item C on the agenda: Downtown Noise Limits.
Committee members asked about the conflict between the businesses and homes, and a lawyer for The Space asked which standard for noise should be held — the stricter one for homes or the looser business restrictions?
"That will be addressed in the next code," Rogers said, adding that right now, the city generally uses the stricter residential regulations. "Mixed use was probably not envisioned when this noise code was written."
"We wanted mixed-use and we were all really excited about it," Councilor Laura Tesler said in a phone interview. "You know, I guess I thought most people who would live downtown or on Broadway would be OK with noise ... But I guess people do have the right to be able to open their window on a hot night after 10 and not having sound pounding in their window."
"We never thought about it, never even discussed it. And I have to admit, that was a faux pas on our part."
The city of Salem's noise ordinance is pretty straightforward; it can be printed on just one page. It takes into account three factors: times (everyone must be quieter between 10 p.m. and 7 a.m.), who is making the noise (industrial areas can be louder than residences) and who can hear the noise.
The strictest category, both for making and allowable noise, is "noise-sensitive." It includes houses, hospitals, nursing homes, apartments and, roughly speaking, places where people would like to sleep at night, and therefore are most deserving of strict quiet standards.
The allowed noise level ranges from 45 decibels (from one house to another at night) up to unlimited noise that can be made between two industrial areas. Right now, it has no provisions for mixed-use.
Mayor Janet Taylor said that she thinks the solution is for businesses and residents to both be respectful of one another, and that as of now ordinance changes aren't needed.
"I support the ordinances as they are unless we find a reason to change them," she said.
Broadway overlay
On a recent Thursday evening, the intersection of Broadway and Market streets was busy. Patrons of the Salem Cinema headed in for a movie, people ducked in and out of Subway and Christo's Pizza, and residents of Broadway Town Square, situated above businesses, arrived home from work. Across the street, a band loudly warmed up in The Space.
The Space, Christo's Pizza, Salem Cinema, the two apartment buildings and the YWCA are all a part of the Broadway/High Street Overlay Zone. In 1997, the city adopted a plan to redevelop the area — lots of stores, residences on upper stories and a walkable neighborhood was the plan.
Directly across the street from The Space is Broadway Town Square. The apartments are modern, with strong architectural lines and careful design — for example, they were built with bike-sized closets inside so residents wouldn't store them on the balconies. Rents are between $950 and $1,150 per month; all the units are filled, said developer David Glennie, a former Salem City councilor who runs Telos Development.
One block north is Broadway Place, which houses the YWCA and 55 units of low-income housing, 52 of which are filled.
Altogether, Glennie estimates that he and his investors in Telos Development paid more than $23 million to develop the properties. Telos bought the Broadway Place property in 2005; the Broadway Town Square property in 2006.
Noise & complaints
Some Broadway Town Square residents — the ones with apartments that face away from The Space — said the noise has never bothered them.
But the ones with apartments facing the venue have a different story.
Randall Blake is a former resident of Broadway Town Square. He and his wife JoAnne loved the building, loved the neighborhood, loved the landlord, he said, but couldn't stand the noise.
"The very first day we moved in, that night the noise was so bad we retreated to our bedroom on the back side of the building, and we couldn't sleep, the noise was so bad," he said.
Did he know there was a rock venue across the street when he moved in?
"We knew that there was, yes," he said.
"But we had no idea it was going to be that loud and that disruptive to our life," he said, adding that the noise made it impossible to hold conversations, listen to music or watch a movie.
Shortly after they moved in, they invited their daughter over to show off their new place.
"And we're sitting there in our living room and it was so loud, we were screaming at each other," he said. "And my daughter said, 'I can't take this anymore.' And she left, and she said, 'I don't know how you guys are going to be able to stand it.'"
Blake and his wife moved out this month to Keizer.
Shortly after residents moved in, the calls started pouring into the city. April 22, 2009. May 2. May 15. May 30. June 30. July 12. July 14. July 24, and so on. Nearly all of them were the same: residents of Broadway Town Squares and some from Broadway Center could hear the music, and they wanted it turned down or shut off.
Complaints came from different people, though there were some names that showed up repeatedly.
It hit its peak during the hot spell of last summer, when The Space, lacking air conditioning, played music with the doors open. That, residents say, was when it was worst, and while things are better in the winter, they're worried about the coming summer.
Brady Rogers is in charge of enforcement of city code compliance, and, by extension, sound complaints. He first went out to take noise measurements at The Space in August of last year. He said the people at The Space nearly always quieted down after the police showed up, and no official citations were issued.
Then in March, Doug Hoffman, the owner of The Space was given a cease-and-desist order from the city. The verdict: he could not play amplified music after 10 p.m.
The Space, which opened in February 2008, is a petite venue, with thrift store couches and a mural of The Gold Man were he a skeleton. They sell Rainier and PBR for $2. There's comedy nights, and acoustic shows, but mostly what it's known for is rock — hard rock, loud rock, prog rock and psychedelic rock. They get big names — there was the time Frank Black of The Pixies debuted his new band there, and there was the secret concert from Art Brut, one of England's bigger bands, but mostly they feature local bands.
Hoffman, for his part, said he does not want to be a bad neighbor and has tried to accommodate — moving the stage to the back of the venue, for example, and adding sound proofing where he could. But, he said, he is barely able to keep the doors open as it is and can't afford more expensive soundproofing.
"I'm having trouble even making rent, let alone the materials and the hoops to jump through," he said.
He is hoping to move to the downtown area in the next year, perhaps into a basement.
"I want it to be all, like, legit," he said. "Where no one can mess with me."
But, he said, that won't solve the overarching problem.
"Even if I'm not in this facility, if there's something like this that opens in another part of town, it's the same issue."
Mixed-use question
Glennie, the developer, said he has no issue with a music venue, but he wants the rules followed and not changed.
"Doug knowingly and continually operated outside of the existing ordinance," he said, adding that the nighttime noise from The Space is harming his and others' investments in a livable Broadway.
"I don't know why anyone would think it's the problem of our tenants ... and not the problem of those who are are violating the noise ordinance."
And, he said, his company made the plans and purchased the lot long before The Space was there. He hopes the city will maintain the current standards.
"I would have a very difficult time leasing all these units," if it were changed, he said. "And the city, I assume, would hold some responsibility for that."
Jason Seibert, Hoffman's lawyer, said the city needs to look at this conflict and address the larger issues that come with a downtown that is both home to people and home to bars and clubs, many of which make their livelihoods after 10 p.m.
"It's forcing the entertainment part of downtown to shut down at 10 o'clock," he said. "And that's just not healthy for an effective downtown core."
"To hold a commercial district to be quieter than a room that's silent," Seibert said referring to the decibel meter test at the Urban Development Office, "is not practical."
And, he said, the problem could be lessened if the city mandated sound-proofing construction in residences on busy streets near businesses.
Tonight, Seibert will represent Hoffman as he appeals the cease and desist order at a 4 p.m. hearing in the City Council chambers. His argument: the sound ordinance is vague and does not address mixed use. How can Hoffman comply with the ordinance, Seibert will argue, if there is nothing written to address his situation?
Rogers, for his part, said his department uses their best judgement on cases, and there shouldn't be much question.
"The noise ordinance is not vague; the noise ordinance is not based on zoning," Rogers said. "It's based on the occupancy of the receiving property."
Whether the city will change the ordinance remains up in the air. Right now, the city's attorney is examining the existing code, though Rogers said it is unlikely it will be taken up anytime before the budget passes later this month.
Councilor Tesler said she hopes to soon introduce an ordinance to create an entertainment zone, where clubs and bars could play later and louder.
"The permanent solution is an entertainment zone ordinance, and everyone knows what the deal is — if they move into this area, they know that live music is allowed from X until Y."
Tesler added that she's frustrated that she has to drive to Eugene or Portland to see bands that have skipped over Salem, and frustrated that local bands lack venues and support.
"It drives me nuts, because I feel like, 'Why am I driving to Eugene, which is the same size as Salem, to see a show?'"
But Taylor said she doesn't see the issue as one of zoning, but rather of a business owner acting irresponsibly.
"I've lived in Salem since 1956 and experienced a tremendous amount of live music over my many, many years, so I think we have entertainment zones where a business feels that they can be successful and follow the current noise ordinance," she said.
And, she said, she was concerned with whether anyone would want to live downtown if there was an entertainment zone.
"You've got about eight blocks where we're trying to encourage the mixed-use ... if you had loud music until 1, 2 in the morning, you would get nobody. You might get some people who want to be there with the loud music, but you're not going to get a good mix of residents."
City Councilor Diana Dickey said she hopes the city can find a compromise between residential and commercial properties in terms of mixed use.
"I definitely think we need to protect residents, but if we're going to allow mixed use we have to figure it out," she said. "If we allow mixed use or residential development in a place where there are established venues that play music ... I'm concerned with what would happen to them in that case.
"You have an area where they're zoned for commercial noise use and then suddenly they become a noise-sensitive area. What impact does that have on their business?"
[email protected] or (503) 399-6743
Noise ordinance
Salem's noise ordinance is based on three things: what time it is, who's making the noise and who can hear the noise. Night hours, which are of course quieter, run from 10 p.m. to 7 a.m.
The acceptable sound levels run from 45 decibels between two "noise sensitive" properties at night, up to unlimited noise between two industrial properties.
The ordinance is complaint-driven. If someone calls the city, the city will send someone out to the property line of the afflicted party to take noise measurements. They'll first take a baseline measurement, to find out how loud the property is normally, and then they can calculate how much noise the other property is adding. At first, the police give warnings, but progressive violations can lead to $301 fines or misdemeanor charges.
Decibels: The difference between 50 and 65 decibels may not sound like a lot, but it's enormous.
Decibels grow exponentially, and you double in sound every three decibels. So that 15 decibel difference means the sound is actually 32 times louder.